After departing Penn Station and heading through A interlocking, trains bound for the west and south leave through the North River Tunnels. NJTransit trains to Trenton, Jersey Avenue, South Amboy, Long Branch, the M&E stops, and since just this Monday, Raritan and High Bridge as well as Amtrak trains to Washington DC, Harrisburg, Miami, Chicago, New Orleans, Savannah, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, and Virginia all leave through this way.
The North River Tunnels are only two tracks, one for each direction, a severe bottleneck on 7Amtrak's busy Northeast Corridor. The tunnels are at capacity nearly all the time, with the tunnels stuffed to capacity during rush hours, getting full enough during the midday period, and at capacity on weekends when the schedules are set up to allow for either tunnel to be closed for work at any given time.
Once these trains get through this tight capacity constraint, they come out onto the High Line, turn south slightly, and then hit BERGEN Interlocking.
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| The North River Tunnel portals. BERGEN interlocking is just to the right of this photo. |
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| The North River Tunnels. You can see the third rail in the photo to the right. It ends right around where the cab would be in this phot. (Photo credit: New Jersey Transit) |
in fact have 750V DC third rail in them in the event that a LIRR engine or an Amtrak Dual Mode needs to go in and pluck out a disabled train during an emergency (and especially during those occasions when power to the overhead wires is lost). The third rail in these lines was renewed about 10 years ago at this point and currently sits in the tunnels live, ready just in case.
That being said, the third rail power in these two tunnels is seldom used, and it theoretically can only be used in an emergency. There are no DC substations on the New Jersey side of the tunnels so all power is fed from points east, so by this point, it has already begun to trail off. Additionally, the third rail ends right at the tunnel portals. For a P32ACDM or DM30AC to actually use this third rail, it would need to be extended roughly a mile further out into NJ and an additional substation would have to be built. When it's all said and done, it takes about a mile for a third-rail dual mode to change modes under speed, and they can't start the mode change early while they are in the tunnels as that would cause a big mess with the fumes.
Just past BERGEN interlocking's western limit lives another interlocking, ALLIED. Then there are a bunch more interlockings all the way down the Northeast Corridor until you finally get to K interlocking, just east of Washington DC Union Station.
This is a pretty cool walkthrough. Is there any chance that a full track map of the LIRR or its lines is going to come out soon?
ReplyDeleteThere used to be one, but the author of the map requested that it not be distributed anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe site that used to host it says "I regret to say that I’ve taken down the track maps by Rich E Green that
I’d hosted, in accordance with requests by him and by his employer, to
whom he sold the maps. This involves breaking past links; I will put
notices in past posts of mine that link to them, including a brief
description to what is seen in the maps when necessary, and I encourage
others to do the same."
Thank you. Is is known why the maps were taken down?
ReplyDeleteMr. Green sold the maps to his employer some time ago. I've been given permission to include individual sections of the maps in posts like these, but not to distribute the entire map.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately you will not be able to find the entire maps online anymore as a result. However, if you know someone who has saved a copy of the files, there's nothing wrong with e-mailing it among them as long as its for personal use.
Looks very good - a couple of small things I noticed:
ReplyDelete1) Train 467 - has 13 mins between Manhasset and Great Neck, instead of 3. Also, how will this train fit between 446/448/450 between Port Washington and Great Neck?
2) Train 252 - only has 9 mins from GCT to Woodside instead of 19.
3) Train 225 - NYP arrival time typo
4) In the AM, there is an W/B leaving Port Wash 7:07 and arriving Great Neck 7:17, an E/B leaving Great Neck 7:17 and arriving Port Wash 7:27, and a W/B leaving Port Wash 7:27 and arriving Great Neck 7:37. This seems too tight. From watching the version of Train Time on this site (awesome!), it seems a train arrives in Port Wash then the next train leaves a few minutes later (For example, if a train arriving at 9:04 is 5 mins late, then the train leaving at 9:09 - different equipment - will typically not leave until 9:13 or so) , so I'm not sure its possible to have the meet at 7:27. Perhaps move the 7:27 to 7:30 to leave more time, as this 7:27 train would just about always be late.
5) I would add a woodside stop to train X269 so that its stopping pattern west of G Neck matches the train it "replaces" 469 on Mets days.
6) Train 458 would not be able to leave G Neck at 5:56 because Train 471 does not clear single track until 5:59.
~Adam from Great Neck
7) Typo in Y275 arrival time (6:30 from Great Neck).
ReplyDelete8) For PM reverse peak, why do both locals and expresses have the same running time G Neck -> Mets Willets (16 mins)? Shouldn't expresses be a little faster?
9) How can 427 and 241 both leave great neck at 8:37?
ReplyDeleteMaybe they leave on parallel tracks and one of the trains runs on the left-hand track to Bayside, while the other train is held at Little Neck until the other train can clear the signal. (Just my two cents – I'm not sure if that scheduling is what Patrick intended, but it can theoretically happen since this schedule provides for the Colonial Road siding to fit two full length trains.)
ReplyDeleteThanks very much for your comments. To respond to them in order:
ReplyDelete1) Fixed the typo. The running times are tight, but by taking advantage of the now-2250 foot Great Neck Pocket and the Yard Lead track at Port Washington, the trains don't necessarily pass each other in their respective stations. The eastbound train can advance several trainlengths after Great Neck before meeting the westbound coming off the Manhasset Viaduct.
2) Got that, The running times at Woodside through Bayside were actually 10-minutes off (copy and paste typo), so adjusting those allows everyone to keep their slots.
3) Got that
4) Like I said on #1, the times are tight, but taking advantage of the added infrastructure will allow each train to just squeak through.
5) I think you mean adding a Sunnyside stop to X269? If that's so, then I added it.
6) Tweaked the times a little bit to reduce potential conflict, but the same thing as #1 and #4 apply.
You are welcome. Just noticed another typo: GCT Train 470 is scheduled for Flushing and Murray Hill both at 6:49. Also, since Met games don't typically end until around 10, you may wish to consider making some later WB trains stop at Mets Willets on Event Days.
ReplyDeleteWeekend 6437 train has a typo in great neck time, should be 1:24.
ReplyDeleteCHLORINE GAS TRANSPORTATION SAFETY
ReplyDeleteFirst Responders ask federal administrations to consider adding secondary containment to rail tank cars used to transport chlorine gas, providing lifesaving safety to First Responders and
the public they serve. See First Responders Comments at PETITION C KIT.
Thanks. For some reason all those Great Neck times fell out of what at some point along the line. I think I've caught the last of them now, though.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your effort, but I don't think this plan for this is effective at all. The peak schedules don't work. There's not enough service from Great Neck to Port.
ReplyDeleteIMO the change that needs to be made is Woodside needs to become the hub for local and express change overs for this line, the only one not through Jamaica.
PM GCT and Penn Station trains leave approximately the same time and meet in Woodside. They alternate being express and local from both locations, It also creates a viable path for transportation to the rest of the Island as well as for Mets/Willets Pt during event days. Any potential track issues from one location would still allow both Penn and GCT passengers to get to Woodside via other LIRR trains or Subway.
In the morning I would advocate the same concept of meeting at Woodside. Some Port Express trains could stop at Bayside or Great Neck, but not both. The schedule should have the expresses right behind the local from Flushing on. Jump across the track @ Woodside if you need to.
Service between Great Neck and Port Washington is what it is due to the infrastructure constraints. I've gotten everything I can out of it, and there's not a single additional train that could be added.
ReplyDeleteI will take a closer look at the Woodside transfer you brought up, thanks.
Thanks. Yes there are certainly infrastructure constraints. The reality is that using Great Neck or Bayside as the primary transfer point is inefficient. Often basic delays happen at Great Neck as passengers stand there in the PM just waiting for the terminated GN train to get out of the way, while staff does their walk through. Not to mention that this forces passengers to stand in the worst weather conditions. This also makes passengers less likely to transfer. They will just wait for their next direct train during rush hour making the later trains more crowded than they need to be. The transfer at Woodside is much more passenger friendly and efficient as they can be right across the track with Subway options too. Thanks again for your efforts.
ReplyDeleteD
Wake up, this is a enthusiast/rider created blog unaffiliated with the MTA, not a Master's thesis or MTA staff created site.
ReplyDeletePatrick, thank you for putting this together. It was well thought out. I will tell you as a morning commuter I would like to see 1 less train between 4:51am-6:21am and 1 more train between 6:21am-7:38am. The current schedule has a lag time between 645am-719am that I think everyone feels is too long during that time in the morning and the need for another train will help with trains being overly crowded. I hope this color helps
ReplyDelete-mike
The trouble that arises in Port Washington is the lack of equipment. They have the ability to deadhead equipment up to Port Washington at the very beginning and end of the rush hours, so adding more trains during those times is easy. At the "peak of the peak" you can only run as many trains as the amount of trains you have in the yard. In order to add more trains, you need to add more space in the yard.
ReplyDeleteThe LIRR is getting a tough enough time just adding two tracks to the yard, and there would be riots if they proposed adding any more. Without the space, it's impossible to add any more trains at that time of the rush hour, so the awkward gaps like the ones you mention arise.
They could easily and much more cheaply take some action right now for commuters who travel to/from the East Side simply by having trains make a stop at Woodside where we could get the 7-train. Most express trains do not have a scheduled stop at Woodside, yet they always seem to either slow down and stop or nearly stop anyway, so why not just have all trains stop at Woodside *right now* instead of waiting for East Side Access to complete in 2019 (though I read it will be delayed yet again) and save a few billions of dollars?
ReplyDeleteUpdate: After suggestions from many readers, I have added Woodside stops to several peak trains to improve the possibility of connections to alternate terminals. Thanks for all the input!
ReplyDeleteSomething like that could ease travel times to the East Side, but there's no alternative to East Side Access. Adding stops at Woodside won't be able to add 24 train slots per hour into New York, so they have to keep on building.
ReplyDeleteAgreed - Woodside/Flushing stops also help Port Wash branch customers who work in western queens. The 40 min headways from Great Neck to Woodside right now (WS arrivals gaps 6:10-6:52 and 7:46-8:26) reduce how often I take the train (since I'm not a morning person) and leaving 30 minutes earlier than I do by car doesn't work for me most mornings.
ReplyDelete1) Can 271/229 times be adjusted 1 min to create a meet at Woodside?
ReplyDelete2) Also, you have a gap in E/B service GN->PW from 8:18-9:35 (using PW arrival times). There is an opening (9:02-9:21) in your schedule for a train to travel GN->PW between the W/Bs. Is it an equipment issue causing this gap?
At Woodside, all westbound trains must use Port Washington 1 and the side platform at Woodside, so there's no way there can be two trains stopping there at the same time. It's also not possible for a train to switch to a different track as they would not be able to switch back to the correct track west of Woodside and they would be in the incorrect position in HAROLD. So, there's no way for a direct transfer between two Port Washington trains going westbound. There are other trains westbound at Woodside on the Mainline, so one could go up-and-over to transfer to another train, but there's no way to do it going westbound with Port Washington trains at Woodside.
ReplyDeleteGoing eastbound, things work differently, so two trains arriving at Woodside and allowing passengers to go-between the trains is possible. An eastbound train can be routed over Switch 813 and on to the westbound local track and passengers can do a cross-platform transfer using the island platform there. The train can then get over to the proper track east of Woodside and continue its run, so such transfers are possible, but only in the eastbound direction.
Thank you so much, that is most interesting and informative.
ReplyDeleteI am curious as to your thoughts on #2 above about the E/B morning gap GN->PW.
ReplyDelete1) If possible, I would make the Woodside and NYP times 2-3 minutes later on 271. Having taken the current 7:19 PW/7:30 G Neck express many times (closest equivalent to your Train 271), there is heavy loading at Great Neck and we usually don't leave until 7:33-7:34.
ReplyDelete2) I know you left Bayside off 235 because of scheduling, but just noticed this creates a 63-minute gap in direct NYP service from Bayside (7:40-8:43am).
Sorry, didn't see that second question at first. Not only would adding an additional eastbound train create an equipment imbalance in Port Washington, it would require the creation of a whole new train which would need a slot at HAROLD and in one of the terminals.
ReplyDelete